tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13173725.post4436844443365791960..comments2023-11-28T21:28:17.116-06:00Comments on THE OWL'S SONG: Husband as "Head" Part Five: Back to the GardenDorcas (aka SingingOwl)http://www.blogger.com/profile/15626748280614018533noreply@blogger.comBlogger19125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13173725.post-35702099291711146612008-08-11T20:47:00.000-05:002008-08-11T20:47:00.000-05:00I know that when we get to heaven we will all be w...I know that when we get to heaven we will all be wrong on some point that we were sure we had it right. BEAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13173725.post-63650398963414916232008-08-06T22:21:00.000-05:002008-08-06T22:21:00.000-05:00What an EXCELLENT series, Singing Owl!Bless you fo...What an EXCELLENT series, Singing Owl!<BR/><BR/>Bless you for posting it.Psalmisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12844681463669483309noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13173725.post-13592366137713669032008-08-06T09:28:00.000-05:002008-08-06T09:28:00.000-05:00You said that as a teen? YOU were ordained (by GO...You said that as a teen? YOU were ordained (by GOD, no doubt) to be a preacher woman at that moment! LOL!Dorcas (aka SingingOwl)https://www.blogger.com/profile/15626748280614018533noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13173725.post-76363590541601003842008-08-05T22:41:00.000-05:002008-08-05T22:41:00.000-05:00WOW this is great. I admired the way in which Ton...WOW this is great. I admired the way in which Tony Campolo modeled equality of relationships at a predominantly conservative Christian music festival in NZ in January. Your discussion of Genesis reminds me of my teenage retort (to my uncle no less) in a national church publication. He was arguing that women should not hold any leadership positions because of the Genesis story (the extreme end of the interpretations you describe). I said something like "Why should a condition ascribed to a fall from grace be considered normative in the new age that Jesus has ushered us into." I still agree with myself! And like you said it's not about literal or non-literal. It's about linking text and people (an idea I'm borrowing from Rambling Crimson)Mavishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10742184738139404524noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13173725.post-29600122984845800482008-08-05T21:44:00.000-05:002008-08-05T21:44:00.000-05:00Me too, Kievas! Like P.S. said. And I don't reall...Me too, Kievas! Like P.S. said. And I don't really think it is about being a literalist--or not being one. All Christians reading the Bible need to look for principles, those abiding truths that transend time and culture. It is the principle of men in woman in partnership and mutual benefit, among other ones, that the scripture is affirming. <BR/>I think I'll be saying more in the next post about that.<BR/><BR/>Hey, we better get together soon, because before we know it the snow will be flying! Argh!Dorcas (aka SingingOwl)https://www.blogger.com/profile/15626748280614018533noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13173725.post-63225596479987708632008-08-05T20:56:00.000-05:002008-08-05T20:56:00.000-05:00This is a great analysis, especially of Genesis (e...This is a great analysis, especially of Genesis (even for a nonliteralist like me!). I know this sort of thinking can be challenging in your denomination, but I think it's important to keep asking questions and being open to alternative explanations--in any denomination.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13173725.post-69474254010401146222008-08-05T19:50:00.000-05:002008-08-05T19:50:00.000-05:00PS, I'm thinking about what you said, "That flies ...PS, I'm thinking about what you said, "That flies in the face of why my denomination came into being." Man! There are some interesting implications! I've been told that what I think about this can't be right because so many knowledgable people, or so many Evangelicals, or Dr. __________ , thinks differently. What if Luther had just shut up because he was told that he was wrong? Or told that the powers-that-were had it right and it was their duty to straighten him out? Oh wait, that is exactly what happened! <BR/><BR/>I just starting thinking of how many great people, including church luminaries that we admire today, HAD to question and even refuse the status quo. <BR/><BR/>Wow!<BR/><BR/>And thank you for the kind words, everyone.Dorcas (aka SingingOwl)https://www.blogger.com/profile/15626748280614018533noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13173725.post-4154771934661527052008-08-05T18:59:00.000-05:002008-08-05T18:59:00.000-05:00Thank you, Owl!!! This is delightful reading and ...Thank you, Owl!!! This is delightful reading and OH so clear and easy to follow!Crimson Ramblerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13020190454645032359noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13173725.post-53651069043035512322008-08-05T16:19:00.000-05:002008-08-05T16:19:00.000-05:00Wow, great post. I work for a denomination that is...Wow, great post. I work for a denomination that is very big on the man as the leader being a biblical mandate. It's nice to read a well-thought-out response.Bad Alicehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04540577363786819292noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13173725.post-38976855538359209472008-08-05T13:46:00.000-05:002008-08-05T13:46:00.000-05:00Thank you for some great thoughts. I've been thin...Thank you for some great thoughts. I've been thinking about this myself, and it seems to be that any argument about who is IN CHARGE or who has authority over who is, in most cases, not a Christian argument...not if we use Jesus as our leader. He was all about service and compassion - not bossing people around. Like you said, "God loves justice, humility, and mercy." I hate that parts of the Bible have been interpreted in ways that detract from the powerful message of love.Chilly Fingershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09364530398695776477noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13173725.post-74712173940500438022008-08-05T13:43:00.000-05:002008-08-05T13:43:00.000-05:00Hi Singing Owl,Over time, I am becoming increasing...Hi Singing Owl,<BR/><BR/>Over time, I am becoming increasingly amazed at what the Bible does not say more so than at what it does say.<BR/><BR/>For years, I too had just accepted what conservative theologians and evangelical luminaries had assured me is absolute truth with respect to gender roles.<BR/><BR/>When I started doing my own Biblical homework, dogma began to fall apart, and I arrived at an egalitarian view of gender in the Body of Christ.<BR/><BR/>I think that a great many Christians who are currently in denominations and mega-churches that teach female subordination as a Biblical mandate, are more than content to let their leadership do their thinking for them.<BR/><BR/>It takes work to become a Berean. It takes work to search the scriptures, interlinears, and lexicons to see if these things are so.<BR/><BR/>Let's face it, most are just not up to it. Who wants to rock the boat and go against the flow? It's easier to just accept what the leadership teaches, no work involved, and best of all, no personal risk or accountability.<BR/><BR/>By the way, I loved your reference to Joni Mitchell's "Woodstock" off of her "Ladies of the Canyon" LP, it's one of my all-time faves for that genre!Greg Andersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01165026355782861827noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13173725.post-78501061671691923482008-08-05T13:09:00.000-05:002008-08-05T13:09:00.000-05:00Wow. Thank you for a series that is kind, humble, ...Wow. Thank you for a series that is kind, humble, and thought-provoking! I look forward to reading more and have added you to my blogroll over at Faith Means Letting Go!Clixhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04460380696875928585noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13173725.post-58970940073591071262008-08-05T12:28:00.000-05:002008-08-05T12:28:00.000-05:00Yes, PS, being human we likely cannot avoid all bi...Yes, PS, being human we likely cannot avoid all bias, but it is significant just to understand that we WILL have it (them?)--and to avoid dogmatism for that reason. If we can acknowledge that our interpretation of scripture is bound to be at least a little imperfect somewhere, we can avoid pride and arrogance. <BR/><BR/>For example, you are Lutheran and I am AG. Thus, we already know we disagree on some things and agree on some others, and you said in a comment some time ago that you think your way is best. Sure. I think my way is best! But I can discuss things, read your blog, learn from you and you from me, and so on. In the Rev Gals Happy Birthday post a couple weeks ago I mentioned that the RGBP online community has challenged me to rethink some things. Some of my ideas changed. Some did not. <BR/><BR/>I know what I believe about the Church, Jesus, scripture, etc. (in most areas, not all) but these beliefs must be my own. They aren't really worth much if I hang on to them just becuse some prof said to, are they? Sigh. Perhaps it will be fun, by and by, to see where we missed it and where we got it right. I wonder if we will discuss theology in Heaven. Probably not. :-) <BR/><BR/>I will stop now and pray for you and those you are in discussion with. And then get to work!Dorcas (aka SingingOwl)https://www.blogger.com/profile/15626748280614018533noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13173725.post-46381796950299860252008-08-05T11:25:00.000-05:002008-08-05T11:25:00.000-05:00Well done. I'm particularly interested in your co...Well done. I'm particularly interested in your comments about unknown bias (in general.) Aren't we always in this mode, given that we are human? <BR/><BR/>I'm in a discussion elsewhere with people with a different sub group of my denomination who say that THEY have the TRUTH and it is their duty to point out false interpretation of scripture in others. They cite scripture for this view, of course. <BR/><BR/>But if a pastor-to-be attends a school of his denomination and a seminary of his denomination (using male pronoun deliberately) and is told that other groups have adopted lies about scripture, then I would think that person would completely avoid reading other interpretations, resulting in believing what one is told to believe rather than coming to one's own conclusions. That flies in the face of why my denomination came into being.LoieJhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01977264499770654307noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13173725.post-42474392195277163902008-08-05T11:05:00.000-05:002008-08-05T11:05:00.000-05:00I'm glad to see you continuing this expression of ...I'm glad to see you continuing this expression of headship, helpmeet, etc. We don't hear enough accuracy on this topic today.Truthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04332589956455952959noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13173725.post-57819720753727321372008-08-05T10:42:00.000-05:002008-08-05T10:42:00.000-05:00I never heard this, I will be thinking about it. T...I never heard this, I will be thinking about it. The only bible I have is the King James one.<BR/><BR/>EugeneAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13173725.post-11126820747073522402008-08-05T09:49:00.000-05:002008-08-05T09:49:00.000-05:00Thank you, Diane. Br. Cody, does Dad have a compu...Thank you, Diane. Br. Cody, does Dad have a computer? ;-)Dorcas (aka SingingOwl)https://www.blogger.com/profile/15626748280614018533noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13173725.post-88450259556766223192008-08-04T23:58:00.000-05:002008-08-04T23:58:00.000-05:00Brilliant, my sister. I wish my father--one of tho...Brilliant, my sister. <BR/><BR/>I wish my father--one of those staunch, old Conservative Evangelicals who is of mind that women are lesser--could read this. <BR/><BR/>God is Love,<BR/>+CodyCodyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05448579429360413016noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13173725.post-68213106535162995682008-08-04T21:08:00.000-05:002008-08-04T21:08:00.000-05:00You are doing really good work here, Singing Owl! ...You are doing really good work here, Singing Owl! I commend you.Diane M. Rothhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07749136181846671327noreply@blogger.com