tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13173725.post4797999941300330787..comments2023-11-28T21:28:17.116-06:00Comments on THE OWL'S SONG: Charismatic DangersDorcas (aka SingingOwl)http://www.blogger.com/profile/15626748280614018533noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13173725.post-77745057661882814672007-06-20T21:56:00.000-05:002007-06-20T21:56:00.000-05:00Thanks so much, and for your comment on my blog--I...Thanks so much, and for your comment on my blog--I keep telling it to publish and it says it has but so far I can't see it. But maybe when I reboot. <BR/><BR/>I would love to have you come visit someday :-)-- or maybe I will make it to the Northland and visit your church and talk and talk.... Got an awful lot of travel booked up with Toronto coming though once the school year starts.Dr. Laura Marie Grimeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10372741914558791844noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13173725.post-49510869717242645622007-06-20T19:30:00.000-05:002007-06-20T19:30:00.000-05:00M.L. I am so fascinated by this whole thing--how d...M.L. I am so fascinated by this whole thing--how does one keep parts of your Catholic faith, and not all, and how do you decide, etc.? How I would love to come visit you and explore it a bit! Perhaps someday I will. :-) I was so struck with your story the first time I visited your blog and I started praying for you then, so it is good to know these new details. I certainly will be praying for you, dear sister.Dorcas (aka SingingOwl)https://www.blogger.com/profile/15626748280614018533noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13173725.post-47259349415613513272007-06-20T12:47:00.000-05:002007-06-20T12:47:00.000-05:00Thank you for these insightful reflections....Very...Thank you for these insightful reflections....Very useful to me as I move into episcopal leadership of a new Independent Catholic jurisdiction, trying to balance appropriately the wisdom of tradition and the new thing the Spirit is doing in us and the movement overall. <BR/><BR/>I especially appreciate the emphasis on communal discernment and accountability, which confirms what I have been sensing about needing even deeper faithfulness to building relationships of mutually speaking the truth in love both within the jurisdiction and in others as well as constant attention to ever deeper conversion and spiritual disciplines as I move into a leadership role. Though we have freedom and autonomy in the IC movement within each jurisdiction--a rather congregational polity in that sense, even if analogous--I am so committed to building collaborative relationships and seeking mentoring and guidance from bishops and priests senior to me in experience even without formal authority over me (except when I am a guest in their space) and to consulting and listening to challenges from those I now serve and supervise without ducking the leadership and buck-stopping I am appropriately called to. It is challenging at times but such a joy to find God's transforming grace through each other and to know that we each know only a small part of the truth even as we are faithful to speaking it confidently and obediently as we are guided....<BR/><BR/>I am very grateful for your witness in the RevGals to the beauty of the Pentecostal tradition, which I am also learning more about as I experience prayer and healing sessions with a wonderful Pentecostal minister as part of moving into this new phase of ministry. I would very much appreciate your prayers as I learn to exercise this ministry and seek ever deeper surrender to our loving God and faithfulness to the awesome responsibility of shepherding God's people as you do so beautifully.<BR/><BR/>And know that you have my love and prayers as you struggle with the issues around your mother and sister and the other private things you are grappling with in prayer and fasting. <BR/><BR/>(((Dorcas)))Dr. Laura Marie Grimeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10372741914558791844noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13173725.post-45670326558362833082007-06-15T12:50:00.000-05:002007-06-15T12:50:00.000-05:00P.S. I DO believe God speaks to us. It is absolut...P.S. I DO believe God speaks to us. It is absolutely not heresy to think this, since even Jesus said that his sheep would know his voice. How are we supposed to know his voice if he never speaks? Now HOW he speaks...in my life it has been a multitude of ways--some of them amusing.<BR/><BR/>I hope Captain Quick's comment helps. I can't say it any better than her second paragraph does! That is why I said "if it is unique it is hightly questionable." Everthing we "hear" should line up with what scripture tells us. I do not believe in new revelation, but I sure do believe in "illumination." <BR/><BR/>Pauls says, regarding prophecy (or "speaking for God") that we are not to accept everything, but we are to judge wisely. Sadly, some will receive anything without thinking whether it is wise, humble, loving, etc. And some,like the people at the messge board, will receive nothing. Both sides are missing out.Dorcas (aka SingingOwl)https://www.blogger.com/profile/15626748280614018533noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13173725.post-47034359406394723792007-06-15T09:56:00.000-05:002007-06-15T09:56:00.000-05:00The post of Dr. Platypus and your post were enligh...The post of Dr. Platypus and your post were enlightening to me, since I'm from another tradition.<BR/><BR/>I've always wondered why some (all???) the famous preachers seem to be independent, even when they have some denominational ties. And also why some of them have "founded" a church. <BR/><BR/>This contrasts with the moving around of pastors that happens in some other denominations, either by their choice or they are moved by the denomination. That has healthy aspects and makes the personality of the pastor less important. But even in those groups, some pastors stay for 20 years and there are people in those churches who have a hard time separating church and God from that pastor's way.<BR/><BR/>In my tradtion, people don't speak much about hearing God tell them something, but when you speak privately to people, they may say that they felt called by God to do this or that. I've felt that way. When I mentioned this on a blog comment [to a blog I no longer read, but it is sort of in my tradition] I was told that was some (named) heresy, because the only trust worthy revelations from God come from the Bible and the communion. I was shocked to be told this, and hurt. <BR/><BR/>But I did trust what I thought God told me to do because it was a good thing and a service to others and also outside of my comfort zone.<BR/><BR/>Your discussion puts this into perspective. I can see the danger of people willy nilly feeling they are told things by God.LoieJhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01977264499770654307noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13173725.post-17555645024130696022007-06-12T21:28:00.000-05:002007-06-12T21:28:00.000-05:00Well said; well-thought out. This was a good educa...Well said; well-thought out. This was a good education for me, also.<BR/><BR/>I've been so appreciative for the things I've learned from your recent posts (this and the Church vs Church series). I hope you do more; you have a nice way of cutting to the core of the issues.<BR/><BR/>Thanks.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13173725.post-21102234770585286232007-06-12T09:00:00.000-05:002007-06-12T09:00:00.000-05:00thanks for visiting me. Now I have to inform you ...thanks for visiting me. Now I have to inform you that you have been <A HREF="http://faithincommunity.blogspot.com/2007/06/ive-been-tagged.html" REL="nofollow">tagged</A>Diane M. Rothhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07749136181846671327noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13173725.post-51963771155600895022007-06-12T08:56:00.000-05:002007-06-12T08:56:00.000-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Diane M. Rothhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07749136181846671327noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13173725.post-85501655869086821392007-06-11T21:58:00.000-05:002007-06-11T21:58:00.000-05:00Captain Quick?? Who are you? I know I should kno...Captain Quick?? Who are you? I know I should know...Dorcas (aka SingingOwl)https://www.blogger.com/profile/15626748280614018533noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13173725.post-45356049593339521102007-06-11T21:31:00.000-05:002007-06-11T21:31:00.000-05:00Well said, Dorcas. One of the things which struck ...Well said, Dorcas. <BR/><BR/>One of the things which struck me about what "Per Christum" wrote was that I felt that if he lived in ancient Israel, he'd have had no place for anything that came out of the mouths of Ezekiel, Isaiah or the other prophets. "What, so you reckon God told you, then? Hah - what a load of baloney! You're just going to throw out thousands of years of Judaism are you, on account of 'God said,' or so you suppose! What a lunatic!" <BR/><BR/>Yes, I believe the canon of Scripture to be well and truly closed, but I do believe that God can and does speak today. But, as has been pointed out, when we believe that God speaks to us, if it doesn't satisfy the test of being in line with the revelations of Scripture, then we know it must be a false voice. When a pastor claims to be leading the church in a particular direction on account of "God said," he or she should not meet with ridicule because of it, and nor should he or she expect to meet with unqualified acceptance of what they claim to have heard from God. We should be as the Bereans, and "test all things" to see if they line up with Scripture.CaptainQuickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02643119735497963418noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13173725.post-60707914874032402382007-06-10T15:56:00.000-05:002007-06-10T15:56:00.000-05:00Hmmm, yes, I am thinking of one person in particul...Hmmm, yes, I am thinking of one person in particular who is near Springfield who pastors a mega church...and...well, yes, you have a point. I wonder if that is true in other denominations as well?Dorcas (aka SingingOwl)https://www.blogger.com/profile/15626748280614018533noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13173725.post-23990276981955480872007-06-10T12:00:00.000-05:002007-06-10T12:00:00.000-05:00This is true about the A/G, finally thank God!, bu...This is true about the A/G, finally thank God!, but I still see this kind of thing practiced in other groups that are not independent. The "personality cult" churches where the pastor has a large congregation and brings in a lot of money still practice some very yucky stuff but they aren't called on it because of their stature. As those groups become more mainstream, they'll lose some of the wackos, just like the A/G has done in the past 50 years. It's a growth thing, a maturing of the spirituality. Unfortunately it'll always be with us because people like their ears tickled.Ruthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07762104531877111997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13173725.post-27189951599026866842007-06-07T23:22:00.000-05:002007-06-07T23:22:00.000-05:00Lack of a required and facillitated apprenticeship...Lack of a required and facillitated apprenticeship has been a problem, D.P. Neither Ken nor I had much mentoring, though Ken did serve one summer of "internship." It would have likely saved us, and others, some missteps and heartaches if we had. This is changing, and high time. Not fast enough though, IMO.Dorcas (aka SingingOwl)https://www.blogger.com/profile/15626748280614018533noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13173725.post-50844602589348690662007-06-07T21:46:00.000-05:002007-06-07T21:46:00.000-05:00Yes, this is quite thorough and thoughtful! I've ...Yes, this is quite thorough and thoughtful! I've been pondering quite some time the integration of Pentecostal/traditional theology and experience...Diane M. Rothhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07749136181846671327noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13173725.post-5369313079643875602007-06-07T13:42:00.000-05:002007-06-07T13:42:00.000-05:00really interesting.really interesting.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13173725.post-88336741973576562742007-06-07T13:08:00.000-05:002007-06-07T13:08:00.000-05:00Thanks for such a thoughtful response! I hadn't th...Thanks for such a thoughtful response! I hadn't thought about the independent vs. denominational dynamic in those terms, although I have long thought there were benefits to being involved in <EM>some</EM> kind of denominational or quasi-denominational network, even a very small one.<BR/><BR/>And I certainly agree with you that teaching is key. Pastor need to teach the people, and the pastors themselves need to be properly taught in seminaries and (ideally) some kind of apprenticeship arrangement. "Quality control" has to start with the leadership.<BR/><BR/>It's refreshing to here about your fellow AG pastors' opinions of TBN, etc. I think I already knew the average AG pastor was not taping those shows, but it's nice to have one's assumptions confirmed every now and then. :-)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com